Hard News: The perils of political confidence
632 Responses
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Nice bit of synchronicity re Joanne Black, with her more recent links to the National Party, and now it is the National Party PM as recording ‘victim’.
She's her own woman with her own work. I don't think it's fair to accuse her of having "links to the National Party" in that context.
They should get Geoffrey Palmer to give his personal/legal opinion on teapotgate.
He probably wouldn't go there, but you don't need to be a lawyer to appreciate the contrast between his handling of the issue and Mr Key's.
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I doubt there is anything on the tape.
As TV3 has a copy of the tape and its reporters are asking rather pointed questions about Brash's security as ACT Leader and Banks' loyalty to Brash, I rather think it is reasonably obvious that a coup was mentioned.
This would also tie in with the HoS Editor and his 'gamechanging' comments. An assumption that it would be to the detriment of ACT when it comes to votes could well be wrong. -
Joe Wylie, in reply to
They should get Geoffrey Palmer to give his personal/legal opinion on teapotgate.
In less than 100,000 words, without copious citations and footnotes?
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Joanne Black, with her more recent links to the National Party
Why do you keep doing this really offensive and sexist drive-by on Joanne Black?
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Believe it or not, in 2011 women can hold jobs and form their own opinions independent of their husbands/partners/CUPcakes/friend with benefits etc.
You've not heard of Jane Clifton then?
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Blandish mince...
Key sure can under-sell himself - Just heard him on the radio
saying that everyone would realise any conversation he had
with John Banks would be pretty bland... what happened to
that Dynamic World he bestrides and lives in?
Is that the future we want for our country, bland people
spiceless and spineless with weak white-bread policies?
Hollow men indeed! -
Craig Ranapia, in reply to
You’ve not heard of Jane Clifton then?
Even better, I've been reading her work for a very long time. Your belief that she's some kind of cock-struck National Party groupie says a lot more about you (and none of it flattering) than Clifton.
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merc,
If a coup was mentioned, Key is toast. His entire premise that a private conversation was recorded illegally is onerous. He was conducting a political conversation by his own admission - the Epsom Deal defense.
Mr Key uses the Epsom deal as a defense and initiates a police inquiry?
This is dangerous farce, I suspect the only reason why this house of cards argument does not fall is that small country and all the outfall could be very toxic.
Postnote, from the people I have discussed this with it appears that Mr Key's framing of this as a dangerous precedent has resonated with some whom I would have thought appreciated there is no NOTW comparison here. Aghast, Key will float past this because it appears the Right are too big to fail this election. -
Craig Ranapia, in reply to
He was conducting a political conversation by his own admission
Which keeps being the weakest line of defense, so I don’t understand why people keep harping on it. I don’t know if the audio of Metiria Turei on Morning Report is up yet, but that well-known Tory stooge disposed of that quite neatly. (Grant Robinson should have stayed in bed for another half hour, Turei powned the substance.)
ETA: Yes it is
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And frankly, the New Zealand media have invited comparison to the British sewer tabloids (‘gutter’ being far too generous) over the last couple of days. It wasn’t over this self-created storm in a tea pot, but the nauseating, sheet-sniffing concern-trolling over Zac (WET! NAKED! BLEEDING! ANGRY!) Guildford. If you believe the media actually give a shit about the health and well-being of anyone – least of all Guildford himself – I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
His entire premise that a private conversation was recorded illegally is onerous.
That the recording was in fact illegal is yet to be determined – and, as Steven Price demonstrated, not necessarily straightforward.
As Dylan Reeve points out, the cameraman’s account is quite plausible in terms of general industry practice.
I’d take issue with Dylan’s contention that the criminal investigation is no impediment to the HoS doubling down and publishing anyway. In light of the proactive police warning yesterday, that would be mad.
But Steven Joyce might wish to revisit some of his allegations. If the HoS “deliberately arranged the recording” as Joyce alleges, why would 3 News get offered it?
Joyce also has no evidence for his claim that the HoS was lying when it said the cameraman, Bradley Ambrose, was not a staff member but a freelancer. Because Ambrose is a freelancer.
And I would enjoy Joyce’s account of precisely how the Herald on Sunday “deliberately arranged the taping”. Did they pay off the DPS staff? Or just use special magic powers?
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merc,
RB, That the recording was in fact illegal is yet to be determined.
It is to be determined but that is what Key is claiming, albeit obliquely.This photo says volumes to me, http://www.listener.co.nz/nz-election-2011-live/tuesday-15-november-the-little-black-bag/ that little black bag is right on Key's elbow. Something is not quite right, most of all the ordering out of the media for me is the crucial point, no one said...I'll stay thanks?
Oh and thanks Craig that radio interview is very good ( I don't listen to radio, maybe I should).
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I'm interested in knowing where the HoS got the special cloaking technology to hide the mic in plain sight. Huge potential security issue there.
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merc, in reply to
Mass hypnosis, standard operating procedure, watch the pen...
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Russell Brown, in reply to
It is to be determined but that is what Key is claiming, albeit obliquely.
Not so obliquely, really. He told Rachel Smalley this morning, when challenged, that the circumstances of his recording were "not different" to the News of the World hacking the phone of a dead child.
He possibly needs to get over himself.
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Sacha, in reply to
Key's framing of this as a dangerous precedent has resonated with some
Just like most of the NZ public apparently believe McCully's hands are clean on the RWC opening debacle. And Americans still believe Saddam is responsible for 9/11.
But Steven Joyce might wish to revisit some of his allegations.
Not unless someone *makes* him. Working exactly as intended.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
And I would enjoy Joyce’s account of precisely how the Herald on Sunday “deliberately arranged the taping”.
One might also think Mr. Joyce should be very careful about defaming anyone while wearing his campaign chair hat. He only has the tax-payer picking up his legal bills for defamation actions when acting as a Minister. Time for a deep breath and a nice calming mug of sweet, milky decaf tea, Steven?
He possibly needs to get over himself.
As I said, Three News last night did earn comparison to a scum tabloid. It just wasn't where the Prime Minister thinks.
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Sacha, in reply to
I suspect his party's and supporters' coffers are hardly bare.
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Sacha, in reply to
He possibly needs to get over himself.
That would be good. Again, when someone *makes* him.
Alex Tarrant and Audrey Young came close on the recent Sky/Prime show and you could see the cornered rat mask descend.
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merc, in reply to
I agree, protection squads, ordering out of the media, perfunctory use of the police to shackle the media, private back room deals, manipulation of MMP, misrepresentation that there is a conspiracy...hell it's got everything except a coup, oh wait.
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JLM, in reply to
This photo says volumes to me, http://www.listener.co.nz/nz-election-2011-live/tuesday-15-november-the-little-black-bag/ that little black bag is right on Key’s elbow. Something is not quite right, most of all the ordering out of the media for me is the crucial point, no one said…I’ll stay thanks?
The fabulous Slane cartoon at the top of this suggests a possible explanation.
http://www.listener.co.nz/nz-election-2011-live/monday-14-november-labour-needs-november-surprise/
I'm loving the cartoons as much as anything this election. The one of Key as "Smug" on top of his dragon horde of gold was priceless
Oh and thanks Craig that radio interview is very good ( I don’t listen to radio, maybe I should).
Didn't she do well? Proud to know her.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
I suspect his party’s and supporters’ coffers are hardly bare.
No - but not as deep as popular opinion would have you believe. Nor do I think any political party member or donor signs up to enrich the venerable firm of Sue, Grabbit and Runne. :)
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merc, in reply to
Really, really impressive I thought.
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merc, in reply to
How did Brash get to be leader of Act again ;-)
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
How did Brash get to be leader of Act again ;-)
Let's put that on the 'Don't really know, Don't really care' list, shall we?
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