Hard News: The meaning of a Banana
111 Responses
First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 Newer→ Last
-
3410,
Fuckwit-Am... sorry, Irish-Americans
@ rogerd,
a retraction please. -
And Ben, being hassled because you've got foreign currency in your wallet doesn't equate to racism. As for the old woman - it seems pretty good humoured to me. I wish I could say the same about having bottles thrown at you and being told to go home from the open window of a passing car.
-
OTOH, you don't have to be visibly foreign to be abused by idiots in cars - you just need to be different; fat, ginger, short, whatever, there's a breed of dork that feels the need to point it out loudly as they pass.
-
Charles, it wasn't the currency they were interested in, it was what they perceived I'd spend it on, and why they perceived that. And that does equate to racism. And yes, the old lady was a funny racist, who rightly judged that I would take her joke with the good humour that it deserved. Or she didn't care and got lucky.
A bottle thrown is certainly annoying. But so is being pursued for miles, pulled at, and told that you might like to watch young boys sticking bananas up their arses. So is being physically dragged 20metres into a strip club by 5 people when you were actually looking for cheap CDs. So is having money extorted off you by a gang of bikers because one of them was stupid enough to crash into your car and you had the cheek to be foreign. So is being questioned for several minutes by the police about whether you're a drug dealer because you're slightly drunk. There were so many minor racisms that you just ignore it.
I'm not saying any of that was good or that it makes it OK to do it here. But I am saying that here is not the only place it happens, and asians are not the only people it happens to.
-
"fat, ginger, short, whatever,"
Or have breasts.
-
I think you guys need to actually talk to some Asian students and see just how much harassment is out there. Perhaps you could begin by watching this:
-
And some of the feedback the item received:
-
I'm not trying to deny that there is harassment of asian students out there, just pointing out that a portion of that harassment was going to happen to someone.
If there weren't asian students for those dumbasses to harass, they'd be harassing maoris, or surfers, or punks, or old ladies, or young women, or hippies, or greenies, or gingers, or anyone else they could stick a label on.
Because it happens to asians its racism, but what it really is, is ingrained dumbassness. -
I'm not saying any of that was good or that it makes it OK to do it here. But I am saying that here is not the only place it happens, and asians are not the only people it happens to.
I concur. I got the same treatment in the tourist spots in Beijing, as well as general taunts (in English) from passing cars. I'd tend to pass off the hard sell tactics as good business management rather than racism, but it was a real eye-opener walking around like I had a big neon dollar sign attached to my head.
I also have friends who've been in China for some years, and have heard plenty of rude racial slurs, of the "go back to your own country, white dog" variety. Moreover, the way I've heard it, white foreigners don't get anywhere near the worst of it; that's reserved for blacks, and populations from contentious areas like the Uyghur and Taiwanese.
Beside the point though; I think the original comment was misread. Anjum commented on the annoying flak from her own ethnic community, but the follow-up remark was that the core problem for Indians/Chinese in New Zealand isn't racist Indians/Chinese, but racist New Zealanders... with an aside that the racist Indians/Chinese would tend to be the ones in their home country.
-
I'd tend to pass off the hard sell tactics as good business management rather than racism
I'd pass it off as good business management AND racism. Rather like not paying any attention to the Maori guy who comes into a shop other than to make sure he doesn't nick anything. That's based on the mostly true assumptions that Maori have less money and higher crime statistics. Quite similar to deciding a big white guy is probably a rich American pervert.
You might ask what was I doing near the red light area of Bangkok? Surely I should expect such treatment? My counter is that any Asian going to Nelson probably should expect the shit that goes on there. That doesn't make it right in either Nelson or Bangkok. It's simply racism.
-
walking around like I had a big neon dollar sign attached to my head
I wonder if Asian students don't sometimes feel like that in NZ. By that I mean that we just want their money (or their parents money) and don't care much about their welfare. OTOH what this survey shows I am not sure.
I have heard a lot of bad stories about shoddy practices in the ESOL industry. Of course what I have heard doesn't prove anything ; )
Moreover, the way I've heard it, white foreigners don't get anywhere near the worst of it; that's reserved for blacks, and populations from contentious areas like the Uyghur and Taiwanese.
That is why I am not really that keen to extrapolate too much from my experiences in Asia. It can sound a bit like "me too, me too" and I doubt that my experiences are really comparable to say a Nigerian man in living in Tokyo for 10 years who is told that he is too black at a job interview.
I do see the points that you are trying to make Ben and Jeremy but it just wouldnt be my emphasis.
-
I don't think that people are saying that Asians are the only ones that racism happens to. We should be concerned with what happens in NZ because we live here, the fact that racism is a varient of dumbarse is of course true but I don't know how much light that sheds on anything.
We all bring our experiences to the discussion. I too have my own Thai marketplace stories.....
I have been called a stupid foreigner a few times too. (But mostly when I deserved it or as a joke between friends) -
Charles,
Those stories you have heard are from a sample of thousands of people and you are comparing it to your own singular experience. Statistically your experience is irrelevent.
Plus there is the whole other factor in harrassment as to what the harrassee is expected to do. For instance judging from personal experience alone a Hell's Angel will be unaware that the Animal liberation Front are against the wearing of leather, no card carrying member has come up and spat on his jacket; whereas if he were a lady in fashionable fur coat.... If you represent more of a physical threat than a skinny asian kid, you are less likely to be attacked by a bullying racist.
-
Kowhai, point taken. OK, there's not much we can do about racism abroad.
But actually there's not much I can do about it here either, other than not be a racist, something I heartily recommend. But so often inverse racism means people don't believe you.
The only Asian student I've met in recent times refused to come when invited to a BBQ at my place because she figured (according to my mate, her boyfriend) that we would all just think she was some silly chinese slut. I don't know why she figured that, but I have to say I felt quite pissed off about it. She'd never met any of us apart from me, and I'd never suggested anything of the sort.
-
That's a shame that she felt that way, I wonder why? But I can see why that would have stuck you as a bit much.
-
I suspect it was her tarring us with the same brush as other NZers she'd met. I like to think she wasn't just going on something she saw on 20/20 or heard from friends, but you never know. Prejudice is seldom rational, no matter what direction it's pointed.
Most of the Thais I met in Thailand were not annoying wankers. I don't think most of their racism would extend any further than the woman's hat comment, just as it doesn't seem to here.
-
I wonder if Asian students don't sometimes feel like that in NZ. By that I mean that we just want their money (or their parents money) and don't care much about their welfare.
That's exactly the feeling I got from the experience. I think a lot of kiwis (or aucklanders at least) think "oh, racial attacks are just one-off lunatics, we're pretty enlightened, the asians don't have anything to worry about here". But it's a terribly isolating experience just sticking out, even in the absence of overt racism. 10 times worse if you have a bad experience. It's absolutely no wonder that Chinese students keep to themselves, & have arguments about their cohorts whiting up.
-
Beside the point though; I think the original comment was misread. Anjum commented on the annoying flak from her own ethnic community ...
And from what I understand she's had flak that goes some way beyond annoying.
-
Would love to know what was going on over at SkyKiwi...........
-
Heather, I think you're right. Just because a foreigner doesn't have perspective on comparative racism, doesn't mean the racism they experience isn't frightening. Even if the attacks are one-off lunatics, that doesn't make it any less scary. You're out of your element when abroad. You distrust authorities, and that means you have less protection. You don't know where you are, who to turn to. That in turn means you are an easier target. The feeling of being an easy target is not nice and you tend to stick to people who make you feel safer. It's natural and normal.
And some races are victimized more than others, wherever you go. As a white man, I'm sure I got less shit in Thailand than other 'obviously foreign' people would.
-
even in the absence of overt racism
Indeed. And you don't personally have to be victimised by a racist act to be intimidated. If your mate is attacked, or you just hear that someone in your social circle has been victimised, that can have a powerful effect. Overt violence and intimidation can be quite rare and yet loom large in the consciousness of potential victims. I am sure that if one language student is abused on the way home, all their friends hear about it, and many will adjust their impressions of New Zealand accordingly. And you can't blame them either.
-
I am sure that if one language student is abused on the way home, all their friends hear about it
let alone some thugs forcing into their flat and assaulting them.
"welcome to new zealand"... not.
-
That's a real concern - thugs forcing their way into your flat.
Either things have turned real nasty or he made it up.
But why would he? The Polytech had only been going in term 3 for two weeks - no need for an agritat then.
The National Front in Christchurch turn up in numbers not less than 10 (& rearly more than 10 either) in their printed black t-shirts.
They're strongly anti-Asian a refocus from being anti-Maori. A focus of the National Front from about 1984 on. Prior to that Christchurch Skins had Maori members - serious. -
Kowhai, you are a deep thinker and I mean that sincerely. Ben, re: your anecdote about the Asian girl who rejected your invitation. It does raise a lot of questions - how long had you known her? which country was she from? how long had she been in NZ? how well did she speak English? how well did she know your friends? were there going to be other women there? was she going to be the only Asian person there? were you planning on drinking alcohol? As you can imagine there are a lot of possible cultural faultlines to this situation. I would want to know all of these things and more before I could possibly jump to the same conclusions that you have come to. Essentially it sounds as if she didn't trust you enough and that makes perfect sense given that both of you will obviously have very different cultural conditioning.
-
Thank you Charles, one day soon I will have less time to obsessively check public address and publish stuff full of spelling mistakes ; )
Post your response…
This topic is closed.