Hard News: Obama's Mana
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Steve Todd, in reply to
It would seem Craig Young can only tolerate democracy as long as it gives *him* what he wants, and *doesn't* give him what he doesn't want.
Regardless of the electoral system being used, any party or candidate who wants to make it onto the ballot, is entitled to do so.
Rather than blame the Green Party / Ralph Nader for the 2000 outcome, he should be blaming the antiquated18th Century, broken, FPP electoral system that the US persists in using.
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nzlemming, in reply to
Rather than blame the Green Party / Ralph Nader for the 2000 outcome, he should be blaming the antiquated18th Century, broken, FPP electoral system that the US persists in using.
That's a problem as well, but you've got to vote within the system you have, not the one that you want. And it's not strictly FPP either - there are a few wrinkles - but it's certainly got room for improvement. And the Green/Nader vote did have an impact in bringing the election all the way to the Supreme Court to be decided. That is a fact, however much you don't want to believe it.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Just had an extended Twitter discussion with a local Berniebro who is convinced that the reason local rabbit-cullers are having trouble sourcing ammunition from the US is that it's being stockpiled in advance of Hillary's war plan.
There have been US ammunition shortages on and off since 2008, but they're nothing to do with military procurement – it's domestic demand from Americans. Which has not, of course, prevented the flourishing of conspiracy theories about the DHS buying up all the bullets, etc, etc.
It's remarkable how many of the Bernie-left's Hillary memes are only lightly adapted versions of long-running right-wing conspiracy theories.
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Steve Todd, in reply to
Oh, I know it’s a fact, nzlemming, and I certainly believe it.
You seem to be arguing that because Florida was an FPP contest, third-party voters should either have stayed at home, or held their noses and voted for either Bush or Gore. Since when have third-party voters in FPP elections ever done that? Even had they done so, the outcome could still have been extremely close.
I’m just pointing out that the Florida 2000 result was not the fault of the Green Party / Nader, nor that of any particular group of voters in that state, all of whom were exercising their democratic right to participate. It was down to the electoral system and the way the votes, collectively, were cast on that particular occasion. (Saying the overall electoral system was FPP was just a quick way of describing it.)
Bush only won by 537 votes. Sure, 97,488 people voted for Nader, but 17,484 people also voted for Pat Buchanan, any, say, 1,540 of whom could have voted Republican, instead. Had they done so, what subsequently unfolded would never have happened.
And, just to show that the outcome wasn’t the fault of Nader voters, if the 622 people who voted for the Socialist candidate, or if the 562 people who voted for the Socialist Workers candidate, had voted for Gore, instead, history would have been very different, too.
Anyway, my argument is not, of course, with you, it was with Craig. I was actually agreeing with you.
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nzlemming, in reply to
Anyway, my argument is not, of course, with you, it was with Craig. I was actually agreeing with you.
Fair enough ;-)
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...if I only had words!
Michelle Obama's mana is such that Melania Trump 'channelled' her when she wrote her speech for the Republican's Cleveland convention.
It's good to know that the presumptive First Lady candidate has such a strong recycling ethic...
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36832095 -
Steve Todd, in reply to
Cool.
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linger, in reply to
The way American political choices are going, it seems to me that if Michelle Obama were to stand as a presidential candidate, she would have a realistic chance.
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Scoop Soper strikes out again!
Hah! Barry Soper reports on Melania Trump's speech - but missed the memo (or other reports) about the 'plagiarism' ...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11677409 -
I’ve always felt it’s a civic responsibility to remain skeptical of leaders while they’re in office, whatever their stripe, but it’s safe to say now that I am going to miss Barack and Michelle immeasurably – remarkable human beings – courageous nurturing spirits.
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