Hard News: No end of mileage
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Heather, I bet the people who have to drive you around don't see it that way. This is my pet peeve at the moment, a recalcitrant wife who won't drive even after I sold my muscle car and got a boring family wagon. It really is an imposition on others to expect them to be a taxi service all the time.
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That reminds me (OT sorry) - but has The Bypass settled down yet? Is it yet possible to cross town in anything near approaching the time it took before the bypass was built?
Just wondering - I've found it a lot quicker taking the longer but more scenic route around the bays. A lot quicker. That's in the weekend though.
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blaming these kids for the things they get up to, because what they're doing is what the grownups do. drink, drug, fuck, fight, and drive like a fucking arsehole.
I'm ashamed to say that I read this and my first reaction was to get a little depressed about my lack of social life.
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I should point out that my first car was a Morris 1800. Yes, a land crab. It was so uncool it was perversely cool.
It handled alright so long as you had a bootload of firewood in the back.
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I'm 34 and I still don't have my licence. I turned out fine, never hurt me any!
Get on it Heather, someone has to start the Grrrl Racer problem!
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Russell, Oooops, I forgot about the Charger! Yes the Americans did used to make some good cars. If my heart is still 10, then may it continue that way until I die.
But now, Chargers are just for nostalgic driftarz and American dreamarz (in the style of Need 4 Speed 2).
My Vauxhall was probably as unhip as your Morris. Not that I really want to win this competition. I remember it conking out on scenic drive and having to roll it back about 6 miles before I could turn around. The sore neck lasted weeks.
You took a baby to a dance party? I must say my little one appears to appreciate my car's phat beatz, but that's taking it waay too far.
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I should point out that my first car was a Morris 1800
That's a big engine for a little car isn't it? One thing that struck me when I got the Mazda, was how much engine cars have these days, I mean, if I opened up the bonnet of the Hunter, I could practically climb in & stand in the cavity next to the (1100cc) engine.
Whereas the Mazda, and cars owned since, the engine takes up every mm of space in the cavity.
the Hunter was built like a tank too - you could stand on the roof & not make a dent.
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Ugh, I spent 2.-2.5 hours a day on school buses (hooray for centralisation of schools into the rural towns) until I turned 15 and could take one of the cars. Not that it was my idea, my parents made me get my license.
However I've learnt a lot from this thread, and it seems we are all united in thinking that 1) teenagers are more irresponsible if living in a major urban area, 2) rural employment for youth is important and 3) broad brush strokes remedies cause more trouble than they solve.
So, in light of that I propose a compulsory registration of all teenagers, as either R(ural) or U(rban). If one has a R endorsement they are treated as a mini adult from age 15, with all the rights and responsibilities thereof. If one has an U endorsement then one is legally a child till 18, and must be dropped off at school by mother
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Finn, perhaps it's on par with liking NZ music? Heh, I kill me.
I'm not sure if that was a diss on NZ music or on me for dissing general standards of NZ musicianship! Be more specific in your insults, man!
(Assuming the latter, I'll say one thing: NZ does produce better musicians than it does drivers)
And sorry man, you are being a snob. Bad enough to be stuck in Taranaki, but to have some dorklander ban your wheelz? The bitterness.
Fuck that, there's two possible reasons you're living in Taranaki: You moved there, or your family did at some point. If it's a shitty place to be a teenager then you can leave or your family can leave. Not wanting to ban teenagers in cars because it makes a shitty place slightly less shitty for them is a bit like not wanting to ban P because it makes living in South Auckland slightly more tolerable.
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Tom
"That reads a little bit like "if you don't like the way things are, you can get the hell out of here", but I'll try not to read it like that."
Heh...soz. Yes it does. But there is a germ of wisdom in the saying. Sounds to me like you're bitter on country life. Me too, that's why I don't live there. But expecting small town NZ to transform into Europe is too much.
I guess it depends what you do in Wellington. Every time I've been there it's been for sport and I've endured many long hours in cars between various Hutts. But as a small city it's easy to walk around. It's only small because it has to be.
You don't have to live in the suburbs if you don't like them either. It sounds to me like you've gravitated to what you like. That's cool, but if the rest of the nation doesn't even want to follow suit, that's their choice.
I wish we modelled our motorways after the US. It would be neat if it was built in that you can land aircraft pretty much anywhere. Our motorway system is primitive by comparison. Narrow and windy. Even better would be the German model, but without the slave labour during the construction.
As for failing to see the choiceness in cars, your example is like thinking all girls are fat just because some are. You're being deeply ungrateful towards an incredible invention :-)
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has The Bypass settled down yet? Is it yet possible to cross town in anything near approaching the time it took before the bypass was built?
It seems to be back to pre-bypass levels, at least from casual observation from the sidelines. I'm not sure that there's been any actual significant improvement to justify the 30-odd million dollars, but we'll have to wait for some official stats (the Dom did a test that was laughably flawed), but it appears to be back to normal at least.
I notice that the promised improvements to Ghuznee St are yet to materialise. The traffic levels have indeed dropped, but the Cuba St intersection still has a hugely long phase, and the frustration has led to a lot of jaywalking and near deaths (due to the change to two-way, though I wish people would look). Some of the footpath is being widened (by about 10cm), but other parts are being narrowed so that more people can park their choice cars.
Getting back on topic, the most hardcore of the boy racers would probably be antisocial even if cars never existed, and they'd be out setting fire to the homeless or whatever instead. Raising the driving age would help, and ceasing to build mind-numbingly dull single-use suburbs ("great place to raise kids, bloody awful place to be a kid") would as well. But some people are just idiots, and they'll always find ways to kill themselves or their friends in an effort to show how staunch they are.
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Ben wrote
The way I see it, learning not to kill yourself is a part of growing up and you can do it so many more ways than driving a fast car that it's pointless to try to filter out that side of it.
And the harsh comment that would go along with that is ... since it's young folks we're talking about they haven't had the chance to breed so natural selection is working?????
Worth rembering that every death is back up with a whole bunch of "minor" and major injuries.
As an aside when I was riding all over Auckland - I lived up in Titirangi and rode to and from Auck Uni and visited girlfriends on the shore - so I do know what it's like to ride a bike an hour to visit friends. And yes I know what a crap bus service is like having caught late night buses to Titirangi. A car is NOT needed.
cheers
Bart -
has The Bypass settled down yet? Is it yet possible to cross town in anything near approaching the time it took before the bypass was built?
It seems to be back to pre-bypass levels, at least from casual observation from the sidelines.
Nope. Not down our way (Tasman St).
We've suddenly got large traffic jams where previously there were none. You know who I blame? All of the single-person-per-car drivers! I can guarentee at least 80% of cars sitting in the traffic are lone occupant vehicles.
Town planning goes a long way towards stopping the neccessity of having a car. but attitudes help too.
I'm trying to think back to being a teenager (please no jokes). When you're getting all those hormones a car has appeal. Cars represent a form of freedom from your parents and society as well as a way to get girls (Rebecca's horror stories above not withstanding). The chance to get away from people as fast as you can if you need to (possibly to write bad poetry). It also still has huge testosterone-association. The guy with the car is SO much cooler than the guy who is the passenger. It also makes it easier to transport booze or drugs to places (can't take your bong on the bus, so to speak), whether they are doing it for good times or ill (again I reference Rebecca's posts above).
Hmmm yes I am just rambling now, so I had better stop.
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Finn, it was actually a diss on Russell. I think it's righteous to love NZ music, but I don't happen to. So days when that dominates the commentary are days when picking a fight on Kiwiblog looks appealing.
(Don't stop though Russ. Each to their own. To me the roar and PSCHH of a passing ricer is music. Bad music, sometimes. But sometimes it's pure art.)
Heh, I guess I don't get your point since I don't think P should be banned, or that South Auckland is intolerable, or that Taranaki is a shit place to be a teenager (damn good surf). Kidding around aside, just as the entire country's policy shouldn't revolve around country people, nor should it revolve around city people.
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benwilson:
yip i am an old hippie (quite young still actually) (and quite welldressed for a hippie) (oh and i read the economist) (do i still qualify?) and i know from experience the whole argument that it's impractical in a country like nz not to be able to drive and i know how much it hurts to climb a hill on a bike in auckland AND on waiheke.I cycled 20 (flat) k's to school to AND fro all through my teenage years in holland RAIN or shine (like we say, i'm not made out of sugar huh) and that was only 15 years ago my dear.
and i wish i'd feel as safe as an amsterdam mum with a child on the front and the back of my bike on waiheke windy roads, and i do not.Still when you're 19 you can cope with some adversity right?
Rogerd i'm not saying get fucked to taranaki kids. I'm saying find another way. My five year old would like to drive a car so he can go see his friends when he wants to but that doesn't mean i let him. And i don't think society should hand him the right to do it until he's deemed grown up enough to make rational decisions re, amongst other things, speed, friends an alcohol. Cars are just too big to be toys.Still no solution for the 20 and 22 year old that Russel refers to, but if the car was less part of youth culture, maybe the excesses would be less as well.
Nobody Important: I know that the NZ driver laws are predicated on the idea of the 15 year old farm hand on the rural road, which I think is still the case (sorry for riding on the dutch comparison, i'm really not always that nationalistic) for 16year old farmhands and children of farmers in Holland, but they get that exemption, for the tractor during daylight hours. To me it just looks like that in NZ that has set the precedent for demanding that teenagers own their own vehicle to get to jobs/schools/uni and now all of a sudden life is impossible for a teenager without a car. If they were all in the same boat however i'm sure they'd find a way to make life meaningful and fun without a car and all sorts of initiatives would be undertaken for kids to be able to get to where they need to. Maybe public transport might improve even because there is all of a sudden a 'demand'.
And re: drinking age. I don't think the distinction between 'bottle stores' and being served alcohol is made in Holland. All i know is that I could buy alchohol as a 16 year old there, both from a pub and from a store selling liquor.
Repeating that life is impossible without a car in New Zealand and therefore pouring more funds into roads, roads and roads is not really going to bring about any change. In fact the 'safer' the roads the faster people go, and as they say.. the bigger the mess..
Bring back rail i'd say.And Benwilson, for waiheke, buses of which the exhaust doesn't blacken your lungs, go more frequent and go straight to that ferry would actually get used even more then the ones we have now, i think.
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Sorry Ben to pick this out
Holland is cool, but it's flat, small and well populated, and has been urbanized for several hundred years. Their suburbs aren't like ours, because they don't have the space for it, and cars weren't even invented when their town planning had pretty much set it's current shape.
But that is quite wrong. Most of the Dutch cities were pretty much flattened 1939-1945. Even the stuff that was built after that has been renovated several times.
If anything it's because the cities were built recently that they are so friendly towards public transport. But also it's a matter of will. If you really wanted to you could build cycleways around Auckland (not Taranaki) that would separate cyclists from cars. If you wanted to you could build public transport. If you wanted to you could prevent young people from driving cars until their brains develop enough to cope.
Oh and by the way yes it very probaably is the DNA and even probably the Y chromosome. There's been some cool studies done that show yoof actually get endorphins released by going fast.
cheers
Bart -
Bart, you must be one fit dude. Curious how you rode over to the Shore from Titirangi? Upper Harbour Drive?
I'm also surprised you lived. All that biking is waaay more dangerous than doing it in a car. Wobbling around exhausted in the wet at night with no traction, weak lights, and a polystyrene hat, along windy Titirangi roads? You must have steel balls.
And no, I was not making some kind of Darwin awards crack. Everyone has to grow up and take responsibility for being in charge of dangerous things sometime. The longer it is delayed, the longer you are delaying people growing up. I actually do believe that molly coddling kids and limiting their responsibilities until they are 20 is bad for kids. Really bad. Not to mention a real pain in the arse for adults.
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because what they're doing is what the grownups do. drink, drug, fuck, fight, and drive like a fucking arsehole.
I'm ashamed to say that I read this and my first reaction was to get a little depressed about my lack of social life.Ah, but here online you can be whoever you want to be (assuming you don't post under your real name)(aha! so that's why RB prefers it!) I'm not only young and attractive but was immensely popular at high school, everyone loved me ...
and since everyone else is sharing: I had a thing for a metallic-purple Ford Capri ... which thankfully I grew out of. Unlike someone I know who bought one last year on TradeMe and has only just resold it again (never driven)(never worked!).
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RE: cool American Cars
How could you forget the Ford GTO?!?
But I'm much more of a hotrod kind of guy.
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Bart, whether the cities were flattened or not (not convinced, I guess it depends how flattened), they were still full of people who liked to live in cities, who had the skills to rebuild, and the incentive. Where else were they going to go?
Sure you can improve any city. And it is a matter of will. Auckland has not been flattened so we don't really have the will, and I think flattening Auckland to the same level as Holland would involve a geological event which is hard to arrange.
I cycle man, and it's not the cars that are the problem. It's the cycling. I'm not really up to the challenge of taking my bike from Titirangi to the North Shore on a social call!
If you wanted you could prevent everyone from using cars, period. But you have to make us want it.
Yoof aren't the only ones who get endorphin release from letting it rip. Unless you want to call me yoof on account of my 10 year old brain.
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Given that there are almost as many motor vehicles as people in N.Z. and given half the opportunity everyone everywhere abandons public transport for their own car, it always amazes how many people bag cars.
I like my car. It is an extension of my household, a comfortable familiar place that is set up just how I like it and I don't have to sit next to or share it with annoying and potentially unhygienic strangers. It is available 24x7 and with the possible exception of commuting at rush hour in a handful of mega cities it’s always going to be more convenient than public transport. Why Auckland's urban transport planners confess mystification to these plain facts beats me - but its a plain fact humans LOVE cars, and societies like ours that grew up with the car ever more so.
People forget what a life-transforming event getting your own car is when you are 15 or 16, but I don't. I had the first car in my social group, and it was fantastic. We were free to visit anyone anywhere anytime. It was Independence Day when I got my third hand Morris 1100.
At the end of the day, I grew up in a house with one phone, one stereo, one television, and one car. By the time I left that house it had two cars, a van,four- five TV’s and a (x286) computer. I think in our national obsession with whining we forget how much richer we are in consumer goods compared to our parents world, and how much cheaper they are. Boy racers are really just a symptom of that much greater wealth and maybe even a symptom of afluenza, and considering how much poverty most of our fellow humans live in, we should consider this "problem" in that light.
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(Don't stop though Russ. Each to their own. To me the roar and PSCHH of a passing ricer is music. Bad music, sometimes. But sometimes it's pure art.)
I can't argue with that, but only because I've been known to listen to stuff that most people would consider a lot more obnoxious. That said, I don't tend to play it so loud in public, that would just be being a dick...
Heh, I guess I don't get your point since I don't think P should be banned, or that South Auckland is intolerable, or that Taranaki is a shit place to be a teenager (damn good surf). Kidding around aside, just as the entire country's policy shouldn't revolve around country people, nor should it revolve around city people.
To some degree I'm just being facetious, I've actually lived a couple of years in South Auckland and apart from the burglaries it was kind of alright. But my point was that if you can't tolerate living in a place without a panacea - in this case, the ability to drive at an age when the odds are that you're really not developed enough to handle a car sensibly - then you should probably leave. That's true enough for anywhere.
I do think Taranaki is a shit place to be a teenager though, my criteria being basically that a "good" place is one that gives you some actual options for what you want to get into the habit of doing with your life and a "bad" one is one that gives you not much besides surf and some great scenery.
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Fuck that, there's two possible reasons you're living in Taranaki: You moved there, or your family did at some point. If it's a shitty place to be a teenager then you can leave or your family can leave. Not wanting to ban teenagers in cars because it makes a shitty place slightly less shitty for them is a bit like not wanting to ban P because it makes living in South Auckland slightly more tolerable.
Heh.
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What's your message to kids in rural Taranaki who'd like to go to a movie or enjoy a social life? "Get fucked"?
Hey, pretty much. Must be that damn convent upbringing again, but am I the only person who finds 99% of the teenage boys of my acquaintance bewildering, often annoying beyond endurance, but nor given to drunken hooning and rooting around between TXT-driven race riots?
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Hey russell: Can you get PAS upgraded to do images in comments so we can all post pictures of our cars? Like on nzrave
To whoever said 'driving is not a right', it is. Like sex, duck shooting and loud music. In a society ruled by law, everything that isn't a crime is a right. It may be reasonably restricted, but essentially if you're an adult, pass your test and haven't been banned by a court, you have the *right* to drive.
BTW, road death rates in NZ are not way out of line with other countries. We're about the same per km as Germany or the USA. Given that we have pretty dodgy roads, I'd suggest that means that NZ driving behaviour isn't all that bad really.
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