Hard News: Media7: Doing it for the Kids
42 Responses
First ←Older Page 1 2 Newer→ Last
-
The Prime Minister’s abrupt discovery of the issue a press conference led swiftly to a response from his Education minister that might in itself be seen as a bullying one. Take your pick of the headlines: Principals meet minister for bullying talks, or Tolley tells schools to toughen up on bullying, or Tolley tells school boards to combat bullying
First Russell you might take your own advice re: Tizzard-mania: Get a grip. First, Tolley isn't responsible for the headlines in newspapers not exactly know for pushing the hyperbole button, hard. (And as I pointed out in my PAR piece this week, fatuous editorials like the New Zealand Herald's effort on Wednesday -- basically "expell 'em all, and let God sort 'em out" is hardly adding much to the discussion.)
Meanwhile, here's a direct quote from Tolley in the last story you linked to.
Education Minister Anne Tolley told TV ONE's Close Up tonight that bullying by students either in or out of school should not be tolerated.
"That's why I'm saying to boards of trustees that you might have policies and strategies in place, talk to your school community and find out if they are effective," she said.
Wow, what a bitch.
-
BTW, any really think the NZEI did itself any favours with that press release. Because, of course, the Education Minister writing a letter they happen to disagree with is exactly like physical and psychological abuse of children in a place they should not only feel safe in, but are legally obliged to attend.
The NZEI is supposed to be a professional body of educators, not a teenager who regards being asked to tidy his room occasionally as fascist oppression.
-
Russell Brown, in reply to
First Russell you might take your own advice re: Tizzard-mania: Get a grip. First, Tolley isn’t responsible for the headlines in newspapers not exactly know for pushing the hyperbole button, hard.
I know she didn't write the headlines. But I was genuinely fascinated by the language of the headlines and intros: so many combat words.
And I also think she looks headline-driven at the moment. Suddenly promising changes to the Education Act about search and seizure -- which has been explicitly on the table for months, but is apparently now urgent -- without being able to say what the changes would look like, only offer "guidelines" to schools, which she doesn't have either, but she'll get back to us on that ...
-
Craig Ranapia, in reply to
I know she didn’t write the headlines. But I was genuinely fascinated by the language of the headlines and intros: so many combat words.
Sure, but let's sheet the responsibility for that where it deserves to be. I don't know if I'd go as far as "moral panic", but I've sure felt like getting my liberal whinge (tm - Michael Laws) on about the exploitative and deeply unhelpful posturing of the alleged grown-ups. And, yes, I don't think Tolley writing stern letters is that wonderful but the NZEI really aren't doing themselves any favours by calling her a bully. Hard as it may be to believe among education sector unions, not everyone comes with a default setting that the Education Minister is Satan's handmaiden.
-
Some people are still trying to necromance the Mazengarb Report. They might as well necromance Rob Muldoon and Patty Bartlett.
And I can't help but think that bullying is symptomatic of wider society. Peer pressure is a key factor, and sadly it often isn't outgrown. In blue collar circles, it's 'whaddarya?' In white collar circles and upwards, it's "why are still driving that clapped out Toyota? Are you a communist hippie?" The latter seems rather hypocritical when the have-nots are lectured about 'poor choices'.
Paul Graham had some of the answers in 'Why Nerds Are Unpopular'.
-
-
BTW, any really think the NZEI did itself any favours with that press release. Because, of course, the Education Minister writing a letter they happen to disagree with is exactly like physical and psychological abuse of children in a place they should not only feel safe in, but are legally obliged to attend.
It doesn't have to be on a par with physical and psychological abuse to be bullying.
From the perspective of the NZEI, with a difficult and sensitive problem to deal with, having John Key (who is the person being accused of bullying, not Tolley) talking tough to schools and threatening them with the ERO, without even talking to them about the problem, let alone offering any other constructive support, they're going to feel bullied.
-
Ben Chapman, in reply to
From the perspective of the NZEI, with a difficult and sensitive problem to deal with, having John Key (who is the person being accused of bullying, not Tolley) talking tough to schools and threatening them with the ERO, without even talking to them about the problem, let alone offering any other constructive support, they’re going to feel bullied.
Especially if you accept that this is just an effort by Key to look tough on the issue - which I'm sure the NZEI do - making the schools the victims of his posturing.
-
nzlemming, in reply to
Let’s see:
Perception that National Minister has been criticised.Check.
First, Tolley isn’t responsible for the headlines in newspapers not exactly know for pushing the hyperbole button, hard.
Strawman that no-one had even suggested, check.
Meanwhile, here’s a direct quote from Tolley in the last story you linked to.
Cherry-picked quote, check.
Sure, but let’s sheet the responsibility for that where it deserves to be. I don’t know if I’d go as far as “moral panic”, but I’ve sure felt like getting my liberal whinge (tm – Michael Laws) on about the exploitative and deeply unhelpful posturing of the alleged grown-ups.
Abrupt change of focus when strawman burnt to ground, check.
not everyone comes with a default setting that the Education Minister is Satan’s handmaiden.
Over-wrought attempt to divert discussion from subject of post (e.g. media) to political wrangling, check.
Yes folks, this is indeed an all-too-common example of classic Ranapiasm, as executed by the Craig-bot. Please note these standard features for identification in your own threads.
-
Three points:
Adults just have to keep modelling the behaviour they want children and other impressionable people to copy. Starting with the PM and government (and I don't see much role modelling in inclusion and social justice from them). In my many years on school boards I saw a lot of bullying. From ministers/ministry to boards, between board members, from board to principal and staff, between staff and parents (parents are some of the worst bullies), and of course between kids. Most kids actually understood what is going on and model much better behaviour when given the chance, such as in setting up school restorative justice processes,peer support etc.
I know a young person with skills and experience to work with some of angriest young people, but she can't get a job in NZ. No one has the money to employ her.
As I mentioned on another thread, this is an area where the new LP president, Moira Coatsworth, has a lot of expertise with her background in educational pyschology and working with kids and schools, and I would expect to see some good policies coming through.
-
Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Yes folks, this is indeed an all-too-common example of classic Ranapiasm, as executed by the Craig-bot. Please note these standard features for identification in your own threads.
And it's a very standard distract troll to accuse your enemies of acting in bad faith. Don't take notes, just kill it with fire.
You really think the Minister's letter (which I wasn't overly impressed with BTW) was "bullying"? Well, I'll like you to go sit on that step over there between Michael ("liberals whiners are being mean to me") Laws and Chris ("criticising Winston Peters is like a media gang rape") Trotter.
You know something, Mark, I've received correspondence I've found extremely disagreeable and foolish. And I was subjected to bullying at boarding school that, in one horrible case, crossed the line into something much uglier I didn't disclose for over twenty years. I've lived it, baby, and idiotic hyperbole like that NZEI PR adds nothing to real and meaningful culture change.
-
Sacha, in reply to
Adults just have to keep modelling the behaviour they want children and other impressionable people to copy.
Like holding people to account for violence.
Starting with the PM and government (and I don't see much role modelling in inclusion and social justice from them).
Given that they don't believe in those things, it's hardly surprising.
-
Sacha, in reply to
I know a young person with skills and experience to work with some of angriest young people, but she can't get a job in NZ. No one has the money to employ her.
When Tolley was blithely offering the Ministry's support to School Boards of Trustees, I did wonder who was going to pay for it. And whether such services will be considered not to be 'low value' in the coming Budget slashing?
-
Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Mark:
Perhaps you can save me a lot of time, and post a list of subjects I can talk about without having to waste time playing Bad Faith Bullshit Bingo with you or Tom S. I’ll take “any criticism of teacher unions” as read.
Just as an FYI, quotes are by definition "cherry-picking" and it's generally considered good form to post a quote with link rather than cut and paste whole articles. (I;m sure Russell would also like us to respect others intellectual property and copyright, and stick to reasonable 'fair use'.)
If you'd care to show how the quote I posted is unrepresentative of what Tolley actually said -- or even bust me pulling an Ann Coulter and distorting it through undisclosed editing or omission of context -- please do. Otherwise, I'm calling bingo.
-
Ben Chapman, in reply to
You really think the Minister's letter (which I wasn't overly impressed with BTW) was "bullying"? Well, I'll like you to go sit on that step over there between Michael ("liberals whiners are being mean to me") Laws and Chris ("criticising Winston Peters is like a media gang rape") Trotter.
Again, I don't think it is Tolley's letter that is being referred to as bullying by NZEI, but Key standing over the schools and publicly insinuating they are not doing their job properly and expecting them to take the entire blame for the bullying culture. I think it is fair to call that bullying of a sort.
-
nzlemming, in reply to
And it’s a very standard distract troll to accuse your enemies of acting in bad faith. Don’t take notes, just kill it with fire.
I learned it all from you, dear heart ;-)
You really think the Minister’s letter (which I wasn’t overly impressed with BTW) was “bullying”?
Russell’s point was about the media reporting. You made it about the Minister. Distract troll, I think you said?
I’ve lived it, baby, and idiotic hyperbole like that NZEI PR adds nothing to real and meaningful culture change
I don’t doubt it (seriously) and, having lived it myself. I’m inclined to agree. But once again you try to sidetrack the discussion into places where it wasn’t going. That was the point of my post (in case you missed it)
Perhaps you can save me a lot of time, and post a list of subjects I can talk about without having to waste time playing Bad Faith Bullshit Bingo with you or Tom S. I’ll take “any criticism of teacher unions” as read
Uh huh. No. It's not about the games you choose to play but how you choose to play them.
-
linger, in reply to
(Actually, to be fair to Craig: Russell’s post does seem to support a judgement about the Minister’s response only on the basis of the resulting newspaper headlines . I assume you'd agree Craig is perfectly entitled to engage with the content of the original post rather than focussing solely on the commentariat.)
-
Craig Ranapia, in reply to
I assume you’d agree Craig is perfectly entitled to engage with the content of the original post rather than focussing solely on the commentariat.
I really rather would, because the McVicar-ish concern trolling from much of the commentariat has been dispiriting to say the least. As I said in my last PAR piece, does it really have to be a zero-sum game between the "victims" and "bullies"? I'd certainly like a more thoughtful response from The Herald than "expel 'em all and let God sort 'em out".
-
Russell Brown, in reply to
(Actually, to be fair to Craig: Russell’s post does seem to support a judgement about the Minister’s response only on the basis of the resulting newspaper headlines . I assume you’d agree Craig is perfectly entitled to engage with the content of the original post rather than focussing solely on the commentariat.)
It was a reasonable criticism. But my point was more that I was fascinated by the way that the framing of the story, via the headlines, was so violent. It was ironic.
It may or may not have been fair in this case, but Tolley has earned herself a reputation as a bully. She's arrogant and, judging what I've heard out of her office, a terrible manager. So I'm not inclined towards sympathy for her. I think she's the worst Education minister in many years.
-
Craig Ranapia, in reply to
So I’m not inclined towards sympathy for her. I think she’s the worst Education minister in many years.
I never would have guessed that, Russell. :) But do you really think that NZEI PR was actually very helpful, as opposed to being (obviously) attention-grabbing? You know, the safety and wellbeing of children might just be marginally more important than a media slap-fight between the Minister and the union.
-
Kumara Republic, in reply to
It may or may not have been fair in this case, but Tolley has earned herself a reputation as a bully. She's arrogant and, judging what I've heard out of her office, a terrible manager. So I'm not inclined towards sympathy for her. I think she's the worst Education minister in many years.
Akl Grammar rebels? She eggs them on. Anyone else? She threatens to do an educational E-Can. So if she is a bully, then she's a very hoity-toity one.
We were told at various school assembles that bullies are either cowards, big babies, or having an inferiority complex. Tolley probably falls into the third camp - more a superiority complex, but it's just the IF in drag - although she herself probably lumps the NZEI into the first camp in kind.
-
Sacha, in reply to
You know, the safety and wellbeing of children might just be marginally more important than a media slap-fight between the Minister and the union.
Most grown-ups are capable of distinguishing between content and process. The union's complaint was aobut the process, wasn't it?
-
Tolley's recent attempts to make education "better" appear to have revolved around more assessment.
I await with interest her response to bullying - reports in school tables anyone ?
-
nzlemming, in reply to
I await with interest her response to bullying – reports in school tables anyone
Probably bring back the strap
-
Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Most grown-ups are capable of distinguishing between content and process. The union’s complaint was aobut the process, wasn’t it?
And couched in the kind of language I expect from pissy teenagers who regard being ask to make an attempt to submit their course work on the due date as fascist oppression not a professional body. Ever so slightly ironic because I know plenty of teachers who've been on the receiving end of that kind of passive-aggressive "I'm the real victim here" nonsense from parents disinclined to take any ownership of their child's misconduct. That's not bullying, but it's a classic enabling and denial mechanism.
Post your response…
This topic is closed.