Hard News: "Creative" and "Flexible"
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Try it. Come up with something COMPLETELY original. Go on! No cheating now - no using an established language - or alphabet or anything passe like that.
Define original.
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Try it. Come up with something COMPLETELY original. Go on! No cheating now - no using an established language - or alphabet or anything passe like that.
Define original.
So you can't then?
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There weren't, if any, women, blacks, hispanics and certainly no Kiwi's in its probably first 500 years.
Sigh. There were indeed women both composing and performing, all the way through, and it's not their fault that most of us haven't heard of them.
Thanks to Russell for quietly and repeatedly powerpointing the numbers, which make most of the anti comments on here moot. I'd also like to thank BenW for his comments on the previous pages, too. Sometimes a simple heartfelt "just because" is good to hear:
I just reckon that of the several hundred dollars I gave in taxes this week to that particular budget, one could surely be spared for public art. I can't find a theoretical model to frame this arbitrary feeling any more than I can find a good rationale for how much money I gave in charity this year.
It is also my arbitrary feeling, completely un-needing of rationale, that Danielle immediately be given the keys to a disused radio station and a budget sufficient for tea and bickies and regular raids on the best soul music archives in the world.
That's my 2%, anyway.
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Reiterating Christopher's point about Jan's point, nowhere was it suggested that classical music is the only serious music and thus all other music is not. Instead, as Jan wrote:
Concerts take time and concentration. Concerts are about serious music - not necessarily European classical music - Indonesian gamelan and Hirini Melbourne and Richard Nunns recreation of early Maori music, for instance. Music with something to say. You certainly don't want to be dragged out of it at the end of every movement and told which firm to buy your mobile phone from.
See also radio drama (something else I would love to see, er, I mean hear way more of on our public radio stations), which is likewise not super-amenable to being broken up with advertising.
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Sigh. There were indeed women both composing and performing, all the way through, and it's not their fault that most of us haven't heard of them.
Good lookin out Jolisa. I humbly stand corrected.
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So you can't then?
I can, but it's your challenge. I'd just make it too easy. I just flossed my teeth in what is quite possibly an order that has never been done before.
If you're struggling with a definition, maybe some examples would help me get the feel of what you're after. They won't be enough, but seriously, at this point you could mean anything. Possibly even something original :-). I live in hope.
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Sometimes a simple heartfelt "just because" is good to hear.
<blush/>And I thought I was being all cold and logical about it.
I second the need for Radio Danielle, but request that there be a regular arse-serving slot in there for people like me who are prone to wanting to simplify or even forget the past. "Hammer your theory time", perhaps.
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your definition of 'Hispanic' doesn't, like, include Spain.
That's a matter of some debate in the US.
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Possibly even something original :-). I live in hope.
As I recall, you were the one implying that the future could be spun from a vacuum, not me.
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I'm guessing you don't make it to a lot of NZSO concerts. I go a couple of times a year: it's a pretty elite event.
Well, no, I don't go. It's horridly middle-brow, darling. It isn't a very elite event in a lot of ways.
Not a lot of light between that and the court entertainments in Darius's palace; the festival of Dionysis had more in common with the ACDC concert (which I did not attend).
Actually there's a pretty massive gulf, which is the difference between the Louvre and the King of France's private collection, or again, between Phidias and the Emperor's tame metal-worker.
& wtf, Attic drama's just like AC-DC? Right. Also, Danyl, what the fuck are you smoking that there wasn't such a gulf between high and low culture in the 30's? I mean, that's about the stupidest thing I've read in weeks.
I am hardly a true believer in the objective marvellousness of high art etc etc, and I suspect I'd probably be more art-is-basically-oppression than almost anyone here, but it might be nice if the people arguing against Concert FM's funding started to show a familiarity with the real world (yes I am being nasty, but honestly, if you keep saying things that are basically untrue...)
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(yes I am being nasty, but honestly, if you keep saying things that are basically untrue...)
Nasty? No! More like a breath of fresh air.
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iit might be nice if the people arguing against Concert FM's funding started to show a familiarity with the real world
OK, i'll bite. What real world is this ?
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As I recall, you were the one implying that the future could be spun from a vacuum, not me.
I'm not sure where you're coming from or going to with any of this, until you clarify your question about originality. It's not the no-brainer you seem to think.
Yes, I think the future could fail to follow from the past. It's possible. Humanity could be all but wiped out in a cataclysm, and have to start over, with very little knowledge of the past. It would be a terrible loss, sure, but not so terrible as the alternative, that they ceased to exist just because their past was lost. Every child is born with very few memories, if any, but most of us think of that as the best time of our lives, and the other end of life, chewing endlessly over memories is usually considered a bitter time. Many people would like to start over, to reboot, to escape their past, their families, their countries, their culture. Entire societies have done it, NZ did it to some extent, first with the Maori who abandoned wherever their homeland was, and Europeans who did much the same thing. They brought a lot with them, but they also left a lot behind and were damned glad about it.
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Every child is born with very few memories, if any, but most of us think of that as the best time of our lives, and the other end of life, chewing endlessly over memories is usually considered a bitter time.
But if children were unable to learn from the experiences of others, and from their own previous experiences, they would die very quickly indeed.
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I'm a bit surprised that no-one has explicitly made an argument against the whole 'death of 1000 cuts' thing.
The pro-cuts group appears to be generally making the argument that the money could be better spent elsewhere, such as, for example, a hospital. Or possibly a refuge for disabled black lesbian single mothers.
The anti-group appears to be generally making an argument that the output is culturally significant.
But no-one seems to be advocating for a 'line in the sand', for want of a better metaphor.
Russell mentioned the old-style licence fee, which was terminated in 1990-something, and indicated that now this sort of thing is funded by the general tax pool (do I need to mention that we are being 'gifted' with a sucession of tax cuts at the moment?).
So we're being subjected to a little cut here, and a small chop there, and with each individual snip, the cultural landscape changes a bit. And then in 20 years time, we turn around, and we're stuck with 'classic hits fm', with the 'the greatest hits of the three tenors' on a seemingly infinite loop. Brought to you by Cialis.
At what point do people start saying 'no more'? Seems to me it's when we've boiled everything down into the lowest common denominator grey sludge in the name of 'choice' for the 'majority'.
I hate classical music. I hate opera. I hate ballet. I'm largely indifferent to hip-hop and modern dance. But I pay my taxes without complaint so that other people who love these things can benefit from something I think is culturally significant.
If we really need need both the opera house and the hotel for the one-legged black lesbian single mothers, and there isn't enough in the pot, then I'll guess I'll just have to grit my teeth and dig a little deeper in my pocket, although frankly I'd prefer it if the fat cat plutocrats were digging a little deeper for all of us.
Alternatively, we could fuse classical, pop, hip-hop and bogan into some sort of uber-music that will render all other genres obsolete.
Something like this, perhaps?
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There's huge sums of corporate sponsorship sloshing around at the moment. Just look at how oversubscribed Eden Park is with any number of companies prepared to chuck in a few million in to make up the shortfall. I'm sure that Statins-R-Us or someone similar would come to the party and pay for Concert FM.
Oh wait, that banging my head on the desk has knocked the lid off the Ados.Er, and that would be why the Eden Park Trust Board has had to go begging for an underwrite from the city council to cover the $28 million that it hasn't been able to find in sponsorship to get the upgrade finished?
Believe me, this is a shallow pool right now. You should give your desk a rest. It doesn't deserve the grief.
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OK, i'll bite. What real world is this ?
The one where TVNZ returns a dividend, where people listen to music made more than five minutes ago, where the 1930's involved a really quite large gulf between the high and lowbrows certainly as large as today's.
You know, reality.
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Russell, I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm.
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Yup sure was!
Head over to the Southerly post for the Ados reference. -
Cheers Robbie, but it went a bit like this.
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If children were unable to forget a lot of their experiences, they would fail to learn just as much. It seems likely that we have a finite ability to store information, and we forget almost everything, actually. We just remember what is relevant. If it stops being relevant, then forgetting it is not a disaster. It is a natural process and the backbone of the functioning of our amazing brains. I don't see every leaf on the tree out my window, and remember all of them. I see a tree, which is an abstraction, a generalization, a forgetting of the detail. Some images are retained with great clarity, but not all.
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I'm a bit surprised that no-one has explicitly made an argument against the whole 'death of 1000 cuts' thing.
Would there be any point, Rich? I'd rather go over to Kiwibog and try to rationally engage with Master Baiter on one of his "everyone but be is a stinking commie" rips -- that at least has some (black) comic value.. Odd as it may seem, I'm trying to use the power of the cranky pants for good and with a purpose. Getting into any "secret agenda" conspiracy theory that, by its very nature, cannot be disproved is neither. I just end up getting pissed off for no good reason.
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Ben, this is why the music of Bach, Handel, Telemann, Mozart, Beethoven, Berlioz, Bach and the rest of the great 'classical' composers is still with us, hundreds of years later, and the music of so many others is not. Their music and their developments are a key part of so much of our music and culture today, and to eliminate access to them would hamstring future musical and cultural development.
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I don't see every leaf on the tree out my window, and remember all of them. I see a tree, which is an abstraction, a generalization, a forgetting of the detail. Some images are retained with great clarity, but not all.
Ben, I think you should be reciting this glorious stuff on Concert Radio.
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You know, reality.
Ahh yes reality, i knew her well. She used to be a friend of mine but we sort of lost touch a while back. I wonder if shes on facebook ?
Tell you what Keir. You define yours and me mine, and if they intersect, we'll have a beer and a laugh over it...sweet ?
And then in 20 years time, we turn around, and we're stuck with 'classic hits fm',
Do you honestly think radio will still be around in 20 years time ?
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