Hard News: Congratulations, Mr Key
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Yes! The more I think about this, the more I like it. Parnell's such a good, defendable position. Isn't it an old Ngāti Whātua pā site? There's wood in the domain for stoking fires in winter and there are plenty of churches within convenient sacking distance.
A steady labour pool might be hard to rustle up, seeing as most of us would have fled in terror, but I'm sure putting Roger in charge of DoL would solve that problem.
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But the peoples... they wants him!
The primary reason I think Douglas shouldn't be in cabinet (well, primary after his history... and zombie allegiance...) is that he's only there because SOMEONE ELSE won an electorate seat.
IMHO (and I'm sure Graeme, I/S etc have much better constitutional counter-arguments), if you're party DIDN'T make the threshold and you got in based on a colleague's electorate win, I think your mandate for Cabinet responsibility is incredibly weak. Haven't seen anyone bring up this point just yet though.
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Gareth - this had been discussed on National Radio on Sunday.
Possibly some referendum in the future maybe.
It does seem 'quaint'.Even if you get less party votes, you only need one member to win an electorate to get one in parliament...
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Gareth - this had been discussed on National Radio on Sunday.
Possibly some referendum in the future maybe.
It does seem 'quaint'.Even if you get less party votes, you only need one member to win an electorate to get one in parliament...
Specifically the "Cabinet seat if you got in through a colleague winning an electorate" bit?
Because even putting aside the threshold/electorate arguments for a minute, if you do get in that way aren't you the LEAST mandated MP? And therefore not really in a position to demand Cabinet responsibility? -
(And yes, I accept that you can assume voter's "active will" is still delivered in such a scenario if you assume they have voted taking in to account the full vagaries of the MMP system and how it plays out for that party/candidates)
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Because even putting aside the threshold/electorate arguments for a minute, if you do get in that way aren't you the LEAST mandated MP? And therefore not really in a position to demand Cabinet responsibility?
I think the only mandate there is, is the Chief Electoral Officer putting your name on the list of MPs. Anything after that you make through coalitions etc, not from the votes you do or don't get.
Cullen has been deputy PM and Finance Minister from the party list.
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I think the only mandate there is, is the Chief Electoral Officer putting your name on the list of MPs. Anything after that you make through coalitions etc, not from the votes you do or don't get.
Spoilsport...
=P -
Spoilsport...
Well, everyone's got to have goals in life... ;)
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Well, everyone's got to have goals in life... ;)
Shit, really?! That's where I'm going wrong then...
But you can see my point (I hope) - I have no issue with list MPs being in Cabinet etc as the country has voted for that list through the party vote. And yup, ACT's party vote percentage gets them a Douglas (and a couple of others) - but only because of someone else winning an electorate. The system is designed on one-side to keep out the MPs of parties that don't meet 5%, although on the other-side it allows them in as part of the parcel to allow electorate representation. I just think that coming in that way gives you a little less of a "moral mandate" (to use that awful term) to demand Cabinet power in the way him and his buddies are.
But yes, you're right that he's an MP regardless. -
IMHO (and I'm sure Graeme, I/S etc have much better constitutional counter-arguments), if you're party DIDN'T make the threshold and you got in based on a colleague's electorate win, I think your mandate for Cabinet responsibility is incredibly weak. Haven't seen anyone bring up this point just yet though.
Because it's a rather silly one? Your "mandate" for a ministerial warrant is that you're an MP and the Prime Minister offers it to you. You want to lower or abolish the threshold -- or do away with MMP altogether -- then campaign to change the law. But it strikes me as rather absurd trying to do an Animal Farm-style riff on how all MPs are legitimate, but some are more legitimate than others.
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all MPs are legitimate, but some are more legitimate than others.
Excuse me a second while I just remove these words that have suddenly appeared in my mouth... =|
If you read through it all, I was extending it off the tongue in cheek comment that the "people want him there" - I agree with Kyle that all MPs are in Govt however they legally get there, but for ACT and it's supporters to be pushing the "people have spoken, Douglas should be a Cabinet Minister" schtick is rather a step too far in the other direction...
I'm not looking to disenfranchise the man. -
So did I, and then had to go wipe my hands on the shrink-wrapped wank-mags to feel clean again...
Lol - another classic Mr Ranapia.
Yes, it is vintage Craig. But in this recounting he missed out one small detail: The hetero "shrink-wrapped wank-mags" :P
Can you tell he's told us that one before? Not that it's any less amusing for it.
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I'm not looking to disenfranchise the man.
Pity. I think you might find a fair bit of popular support for the notion :P
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Whoever thought Key was sleazy was wrong, he's sticky :)
Mr Key also laughed off Mr Hide's comments.
"I am just going to keep my happy, smiley self. I am sure I will be the glue between all of them." (Hide & Dunne that is)
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"I am just going to keep my happy, smiley self. I am sure I will be the glue between all of them." (Hide & Dunne that is)
Yes didn't know how to take that. I think I felt a bit ew and I guess sticky works and Hide then Dunne wraps it up .There is 3 strong egos there, and then there is the National Party, still silent and background.
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and, Sofie, how will the NeoCons work with the Maori party?? Good luck, John, you are soooooo naive that a goofy smile will be the glue holding them all together.
Whew. The nightmare will be over soon. Go Goff go. -
and, Sofie, how will the NeoCons work with the Maori party??
Elizabeth: Welcome to PAS, and all that, but could you try using your poo labels with some precision? Otherwise you run the risk of sounding like Sarah Palin, who is a bit fuzzy on what a socialist really is but it's very very bad, so that Barry Hussein Obama must be one.
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and, Sofie,
House is on, I'll get back later :)
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could you try using your poo labels with some precision?
Got it. Thanks. I've always been a technobimbo...
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Also, Craig, I feel bound to note that you replied to my post at the same time I posted it. I didn't even have time to get out the stopwatch!
Actually Russell, I just checked three other threads, and on the first page of system comments, the time that the blog is posted is always the same as the time of the first comment.
Must be a bug in system in that, perhaps the blog post doesn't move over to system and get timestamped until the first comment is made.
Compare the time listed for your blog post in system (9.14), and then go back to the original blog (9.06).
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Actually Russell, I just checked three other threads, and on the first page of system comments, the time that the blog is posted is always the same as the time of the first comment.
Way to ruin the magic, Kyle ...
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I l think Key (and lets face it, thats all we got there) is like the kid in the sand pit who always gets all the toys. If ( by chance) some other kid gets one of the toys, well he still has the most and the other kids will still be nice cos hes got the whole sandpit as well and they can gang up together so he'll still win. Thats how to get everyone on board, make them think they get something but remind them it's only because you let them :) Maori party will do as they're told and take it to their people . Hone understands that an inroad is an opportunity. Slowly slowly catchy monkey.Or I could be completely wrong, so i'll just stop there :o (yawning)
That episode of House was a real tear jerker tonight :( -
Way to ruin the magic, Kyle ...
I have goals in life OK! Just because they're really sad goals...
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"If you buggers could just learn to save your ponies, we wouldn't be in this mess."
Dude, have you any idea of the stable fees?
Ahh, now you're taking "pony" too literally. It's slang for a £5 note. Like "tenner", only smaller.
Mind you, given the way our banks are charging, the stable fees for a fiver in the bank can be quite high.
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This just in: Bin Ladens first to receive ponies from Key:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10542617
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