Discussion: Uncivil Rights
158 Responses
First ←Older Page 1 … 3 4 5 6 7 Newer→ Last
-
When NZDF(et al) can't defend themselves against the extras from Last of the Summer Wine.
NZDF really have to take stock.huh? Waihopai ain't an NZDF installation. GCSB isn't a military adjunct. Did the guard then alert the authorities? If not, I hope they're being subject to "retraining".
Being a civilian installation, the guards don't have statutory powers of arrest. They don't carry weapons. All they can do if they catch trespassers is put them under citizen's arrest for trespass and wait for the Police. This is not the United States or United Kingdom, and there is no special legal status for these properties. -
Yeah right.
-
Yeah right.
Prove it, then. Find me the law. It's right at your fingertips, so prove to me that they have special legal status. If it's not there, it's not true.
-
Being a civilian installation, the guards don't have statutory powers of arrest. They don't carry weapons. All they can do if they catch trespassers is put them under citizen's arrest for trespass and wait for the Police. This is not the United States or United Kingdom, and there is no special legal status for these properties.
Last time I was at Waihopai (er, 1996), there were about six cops on duty while we were protesting. The one in charge, a sergeant I believe, was on a horse. I presume informally, as we don't have horse police in NZ. He was quite legendary amongst the protesters for always being the one in charge each year. He used to run the horse up to the fence and try to scare you off.
Hence, I'll take the security guards any day.
-
Matthew - I'm not claiming they're acting legally.
Kyle - That's the kind of policing I remeber. It is passing away with the advent of portable cameras & youtube. -
I presume informally, as we don't have horse police in NZ
This page strongly suggests that there is still a mounted division of the NZ Police, and there certainly used to be one. It wouldn't have been informal.
-
I'm not claiming they're acting legally.
In which case there's even more onus on you to present proof. That's one hell of a big claim to make.
-
Hey! I never knew the ANZ Police had a pipe band! I'll certainly buy their CD (I am a big fan of pipe bands.)
So, the only mention is 'police horses and police dogs' hmm?
Off to do some more googling.
-
Hmmm. Interesting. It appears there is absolutely no evidence of a current 'mounted division' of ANZ Police. (I am happy to stand corrected.) There is evidence for the impromptu use of horses, in appropriate circumstances by warranted police officers, as there is for bicycles.
There is - obviously!- considerable evidence of the K9s.
-
There was absolutely a mounted section in the 1980s, because horses were used during the Springbok tour. I also saw them when my family saw the Police Tattoo in '86, for the Police Centenary. It's whether it still exists that is the question.
-
Obviously Matthew Poole.
It doesnt appear to exist now. Which is what I said - and may reinforce what just thinking/Keir posted - i.e a wild-card cop used his own mount for intimidation (perceived intimidation) purposes at Waihopai in the *1990s.* -
Islander, maybe it's time for a [citation needed] on Wikipedia :P
Just Thinking: Or are you going to claim that Waihopai is a US Government installation? In which case I'd like to see the appropriate title document. Land ownership records are public, after all. And if it is such an installation, then a) it's perfectly legal for the guards to carry firearms because they're subject to US law, b) Ploughshares are lucky that the worst they suffered is prosecution and conviction, and c) why was there no suggestion of evidence by US service personnel at the trial?
-
It doesnt appear to exist now. Which is what I said - and may reinforce what just thinking/Keir posted - i.e a wild-card cop used his own mount for intimidation (perceived intimidation) purposes at Waihopai in the *1990s.*
1996 is a long time ago. Big, big leap to take the situation you can verify for probably the last five years and assume that it was true in the '90s.
-
How does 2004 strike you? That reads like a "real" police horse, not just an officer using their mount for convenience's sake.
-
Matthew Poole - can you verify that there was any kind of mounted police (as in a unit) in the ANZ Police Forces over the last 2 decades?
-
Matthew Poole, that was *an individual horse used in a paticular situation* (much like those proposed & trained by Ross Meurant for a *beach* situation. ) That is *not* a mounted horse unit of the ANZ Police.
-
Verify it? No. Can you prove that there wasn't one in 1996?
[edit]
Islander, at this point, your argument appears to be "There is no formal mounted unit now, therefore there was no formal mounted unit in 1996." How is that in any way supported by the facts? I cannot prove otherwise, but you cannot prove your position either. -
If a mounted horse unit of the ANZ Police existed in the 1990s, there would be an internet record of it. There isnt. You know the procedure - if you make an extraordinary claim, it's up to *you* to prove it - not for the person who disputes it.
-
O - may I emphasize *unit*?
There have obviously been *individual* officers using their mounts in one way or the other.
But - it seems- there is nothing like the K9 units that exist throughout our archipelago.Nor was, in the 1990s.
-
If a mounted horse unit of the ANZ Police existed in the 1990s, there would be an internet record of it
*cough*
The internet has only been a commercial service since 1994, and you'll find that there are huge holes in "recorded history" as the internet knows it right through until the late 90s. It's not in the least bit "an extraordinary claim" to suggest that there were mounted police as a formal part of the NZ Police in the 1990s. Or at least, I don't consider it extraordinary.Someone suggested that an officer must've been using his horse informally in 1996 because we don't have mounted police now. We definitely did have them in the 1980s (and you admit as much), but suddenly that fact is outweighed by the fact that we don't have them in the 20x's? That's some seriously fucking weird logical consistency you've got going on. I can point to mounted police as a unit 10 years before 1996. I can point to the use of mounted police six years after 1996. You cannot point to a single thing except the lack of conclusive evidence of current existence, and from that you leap to the conclusion that there was no mounted unit in 1996. I would suggest that you are the one making the extraordinary claim.
-
3410,
There certainly were mounted police in the mid-'90s. I was at an 'event' in downtown Auckland in '94 or '95, attended by at least a dozen of them.
-
Matthew Poole - can you point to ANY mounted unit in this century? Any?
The internet as a *commercial* service? WTF are you talking about?
I can find stuff that is POSTED on the internet that goes back to the the dawn of humanity- you are trailing a non-sequiteur.3410 - was that an official *mounted ANZ Police unit*? Evidence please.
-
3410,
3410 - was that an official *mounted ANZ Police unit*? Evidence please.
Sorry, I don't know exactly what you're asking. I can only confirm that there was about a dozen New Zealand police on horseback in Fort St. in June of '94 (or possibly '95), because I was there. I don't know the official status of the unit.
-
attended by at least a dozen of them.
was that an official *mounted ANZ Police unit*?
Where do you think the Police would find a dozen cops, with horses trained for policing, in Auckland, if not from "an official mounted ANZ Police unit"? Seriously?
You do understand that you can't just take a horse, put a monogrammed saddle blanket on it, and call it a police horse, right? In 2009 there were "general instructions for the protocols to ride horses on duty."How does this go as far as meeting your criteria for "mounted unit this century"? A year-long trial, with horses plural, looks a heck of a lot like a "unit" to me, and it was in 2002 which is definitely this century.
So, you were saying? -
I don't know the official status of the unit.
May as well stop there. It's not on the internet, so it didn't happen. The slim-to-vanishing chance of finding a dozen cops in Auckland, with suitably-trained horses, without their being part of an officially-sanction unit, doesn't seem to matter to Islander. If it's not part of recorded history as reported by Google, it didn't happen.
Islander, if you don't understand the significance of when the internet became a commercial service, you'd better stop trying to treat it as your sole point of reference.
Post your response…
This topic is closed.